In the interest of clarification...Finish the Phrase prompts

[tamingmods.livejournal.com]

We've discussed this again and have come to the decision that for just this type of prompt we require it to be used nearly verbatim.   None of the mods thought it would be an issue as this is always how we've expected phrases to be used, but in the interest of clarity, we thought we'd do a post and spell out what the expectations are.

Verb tense changes will be allowed: is/was, have/has etc

"I see great minds as having purpose, little minds having none at all," Enid finished eloquently.

 

You can parse it separately. For Ex:

"You know what they say, 'great minds have purposes." Johnny said with a shrug.

"What - and little minds have fishes?" Mark replied. "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard."

For this one, your phrase would be 'great minds have purposes, little minds have fishes'

or
 

You know, part of my job is I have to look at how things fit The Big Picture. Great minds have purposes. Little minds have - in my opinion - something less.

For this one, the phrase would be: Great minds have purposes, little minds have - in my opinion - something less.

 

Very minor modifications to the phrase are allowed.

Great minds have purposes, little ones...not so much.

 

What's not allowed:

A piece that doesn't have your phrase at all.

Again, the mods don't see this as a deviation from what you would do with a provided phrase, like 'the early bird gets pneumonia' but we hope this clears things up.

If you've done different things with other phrases provided, you will be allowed to continue doing it that way for those. We're not going to stop you if you've been doing it differently.

We'd also like you to post your phrase in your entry above the cut, so people can see what you've done with it. And because they are done above the cut, we have to ask that as you complete the phrase you don't use it to make political or pornographic statements. People don't always hold your views and we welcome everyone. There are tons of places available where you can express your opinion, including inside your piece - but it's not appropriate for the phrase itself.

I hope this clears things up, and that everyone has a great day.

~tamingmods (calypso)

ETA: 
Thanks to aleathiel for the clarification on how to state the phrase in your post out of the context of the fic: 

Title
Fandom
Rating


"Great minds have purposes, little minds have potatoes"

LJ Cut/Link to fic

Fic Text

Comments

[zippitgood.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the clarification on this. I did have one question though.

Since this was something different than the rest of the prompts, were we having any kind of a vote after to see if it says? Just wondering. Thanks for clearing things up.

[delilahdraken]

First, many thanks for explaining this. It's a great help, especially as I'm not a native speaker of English and thus sometimes interprete certain words in a different way than someonw would who grew up with the language.

Though I, after re-reading the rules, still cannot find where it is mentioned that the writers are expected to use the prompt word (for the normal prompts) exactly as it is given. But, as you you've said here that we're allowed to continue using a 'broader interpretation' for our stories, I'll put my initial confusion as caused by the language barrier.

That said, I'm now a bit confused as to what you exactly mean with the last two paragraphs of this post. Do you mean with it that we're supposed to not use lj-cut html tags when posting our stories? It would clutter this community/the writer's journal horribly if we were to do that. Also many writers don't post their stories directly here, but via a link placed.

Or is this bit of confusion also caused by being used to think in a different language than English?

My apologies for the long reply.

[catw00man.livejournal.com]

Hi *waves*

Not a mod but I think I can help. On the regular prompts I'll tell you how it was explained to me by the founder when I joined. The prompt is supposed to "inspire" your fic but you didn't have to actually use the word. That's why I asked for clarification on this one because I don't like to go "out of character" with my boys to use a prompt. As I understand it though these prompts are special circumstances and we are supposed to use them for an extra challenge.

Also, as for the LJ cut, I would assume they just want us to put the phrase in the post above the cut or outside the link as well as in the fic just so people can see what we used. But that's just my interpretation.

Also, I must say, you do VERY well for English being your second language!

[delilahdraken]

Thanks. The explanation made things clearer for me.

You really think that? And here I always thought it is so obvious that I only learned English in school. I was told many times that I use too complex sentence structures to make credible English texts.

[catw00man.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I think you do a GREAT job! And as for being to complex, I don't think so. I think you write very well. I can't even imagine writing in another language like that. That is really awesome.

You may have mentioned this before but what is your native language?

[delilahdraken]

Well, then a big thank you again to you. *blushes*

As for the complex thing: one of the first lessons I learned in school about the language is that "English does not use such long sentences as we do". For example in my native German a sentence would look like that: He, who was usually at this time driving his father's car into a town that was rumoured to have housed a million serial killers and thus accumulated much fame for an annual movie festival, slept.

Of course, that is an over-simplification about how German works, but it shows that it's in our language rhythm to use a, for an English speaker, sometimes... strange word order with too few full stops. At least, that's what I was taught.

[catw00man.livejournal.com]

You know, that so reminds me of classic Greek. I minored in that in college and it's very much the same way. You can't write English the way they did Greek, going pages before giving you a verb. LOL And you're right, English isn't written that way, however I wouldn't say all sentences should be straight forward and simple. I think that my background in Greek as helped to make my writing a little more complex and varied, but I bet you do this naturally.

I think some variation in word order makes things more interesting when used sparingly. Thanks for pointing that out about German though, I had no idea it was kind of like Greek.

[delilahdraken]

Now I envy you. Classic Greek would have been very interesting to learn. I only had the displeasure of having to learn Latin in grammar school; I never learned more the most basic and that even is so bad that I can't even translate simple sentences. The way you describe Greek sounds a bit like Latin. Is there also no clear word order in Greek like it is in Latin?

You mean that I use sometimes German grammar for English texts? Yeah, that does come naturally. I have to 'throttle' my instincts even, so that not every sentence is 100 words with 20 commas. It's one of my weaknesses in writing. I tend to blame it on my grandfather who taught me to read with Hemmingway and Homer (German translations of it at least).

[catw00man.livejournal.com]

LOVED GREEK! lol and yes in Greek there is absolutely no clear word order. That's what made it such a challenge because somethings even the subject would be ambiguous and you had to figure our who/what they were talking about. Greek can be written as very very specific or very, very vague in ways you cannot do or even really translate to English and I found that very fascinating.

And you aren't the only one who has to cut down on the long sentences. I tend to blame it on the Greek too because sometimes I seriously have to cut sentences in half or more. But that's what edits are for, right? :D

[tigerstriped86.livejournal.com]

I've got to say that I'm also surprised to hear that English is not your first language. I just assumed it was. Well...you know what they say about assumption.

I actually learned Mandarin in college and that gave me great insight into cultures, languages, and even some of my more worldly characters who've seen more places and been through more. I'm learning Scottish right now. I like dipping my toes in the language pool occasionally.

So, let me tell you, you're doing fantastic.

[delilahdraken]

It did help. Thanks.

[delilahdraken]

Thanks again.

[aleathiel.livejournal.com]

Just for clarification about posting the sentence, do you mean posting it simply as a sentence out of the context of the fic, like this?:

Title
Fandom
Rating
Whatever

"Great minds have purposes, little minds have potatoes"

LJ Cut/Link to fic

Fic Text

[aleathiel.livejournal.com]

Of course not. And I'm glad I understood.

[jans-intentions.livejournal.com]

Okay, I understand this prompt after reading through both posts so thanks for the clarification. I have to do it twice this week as I'm still doing stuff with the JS journal.

I have to be honest and say that I find this prompt extremely intrusive if I want to write original. I would have to take it out later (and yes, I know I could do that) but some prompts you can leave in. This just is kind of hackneyed and will have to come out if I use it. So from the POV of someone who will be spending a lot more time writing to sell, and not really to share, this isn't very practical. Please take that into account. It's not the difficulty factor since I have done them for a long time, hard or easy, it's just very eyesore, working in a phrase like that. I hope you either get rid of them or don't do them often, frankly, or consider an alternative for people that isn't as intrustive but can still be a challenge. j xx

[catw00man.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it comes as no surprise but I completely agree with you on this. If this is the way things remain I will also probably end up editing out or completely changing the phrase to fit my muses voices after posting here and I really hate to do that. I've alway been proud that I've been able to write TTM inspired fics for almost two years, that's why I started to write double fics because I really enjoyed the comm and all the inspiration its given me. But this...is making the muses run for cover.

See, I guess I just saw things differently because for me a prompt is something to inspire thought, not something to shoved in literally. I remember an entire series I wrote being an inspiration that came from the early prompt Arrhizal. You couldn't possibly actually use that word in a fic and it was something that caused me to give a lot of thought to and in the end something that because what I saw as a great series of stories all from one word. I always used the phrases in the same way, to generate thought so I ended up with something that was truly a product of the prompt not just a plug in said words here.

But things change and I will do my best to roll with it. I only lack 2 weeks until I finish my next second run, but I'll have to consider if I want to keep doing them. Working in a phrase twice may just end up being too much for me. I do hope this is taken into consideration because I really don't want to write things I'm not proud of and will never post anywhere but here.

[jans-intentions.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the phrase is a little awkward, isn't it? I'm in the same boat. I have two more weeks of my JS run to the next banner level and then I might take a break for a while with double prompts. I have been doing this a long time here and fatigue has set in and things like this where you have to take stuff out, decide where to post it, ect, it's just a lot more added work. Working in the phrase isn't that hard but the other stuff is an irritant.

Well, I will do it and not bitch about it further, but it's not enhancing my experience. I do know what you mean about some things inspiring you. Many times the prompts have done that for me, in much the same manner.

[authoressnebula.livejournal.com]

As an author (not as a mod), I wanted to come in on the phrase-idea, since it was kinda my idea in the first place.

First, I've never stuck to a certain fandom when writing a prompt. I look at the prompt, and I try to think about a way to write around it, which I think branches out my own creativity, getting me to write things that I wouldn't have written about before. Again, might just be me.

We've done phrases before, some much more troublesome, and we've done words that I feel have been far more intrusive to fics than this phrase. Of course, the fun of using those words means, again, branching out to someplace you wouldn't normally go writing-wise, which I think is the main point to this comm in the first place. It's not about writing the same-old every week. If it gets you through a fic you want to finish, that's perfectly fine. But I think the main idea of this comm was to make the muse active in other areas, stretch your comfort zones and make you see that yes, you can write outside of fandoms, outside of what you thought you could write. Like Arrhizal, your example: it was difficult to put into a fic, sure, but it was possible to put in.

Now, as a mod: we will take into consideration what you've said. Certainly, if the idea warrants confusion for too many, we will put in a new idea, give you a substition, or simply eliminate. Again, as we've had phrases before, we think this one is very possible.

Just my two cents (a little touchy for me, because this was my idea).

~Nebula

[catw00man.livejournal.com]

*waves* Hey there.

I think it thing is I think some of us view prompts differently. Shortly after I joining the group we had the "penny saved" phrase and the use of it was explained to me here: http://community.livejournal.com/tamingthemuse/147471.html

That's pretty much how I've done my prompts and I assumed that the rules were the same for all of them. I think that's the main thing here. Personally I love the idea of finishing the phrase with something new and different, I just would like to be able to use the prompt the same as I have all the others. But like I said, I think some of us have just been using the prompts a different way as seen in that previous post. But as jans said, we'll go with the majority decision.

As for not writing the same thing, I'm the same way. I have OC fics and all kinds of different universes I work in, but that still doesn't always mean I'd personally want to incorporate things verbatim But that's just me. Also, please don't take our opinions personal hun. It's just a big change for some of us.

[alexfoster451.livejournal.com]

At the risk of walking to the middle something, I’d like to support what you said here. A whole phrase doesn’t seem that outrageous to me. As you said we have certainly done some odd prompts in the past that at first pass I didn’t see how I would be able to fit them into a story. Zarathustra jumps immediately to mind. :-) But that is the point of the challenge, at least to me. Stretching outside of a comfort zone while still keeping true to one’s story or characters.

Just my opinion anyway.

~ Alex

[jans-intentions.livejournal.com]

I understand. I appreciate you guys will think about what I've said. I don't think the idea is bad, I'm just asking for a little flexibility for we who don't want to have to take it out later. Perhaps a 'tough' word could be assigned the same week as an alternative. I mean, sometimes maybe some of us will want to do the phrase.

I appreciate all you and the other mods do.

As I said in my private note to you, I am doing them this week, so I'm off to work on it now. j xx

oops, took out your name. :)

[zippitgood.livejournal.com]

I agree with you here completely. I always considered a prompt something to inspire, not something that must be specifically included in a fic. I adore TTM for providing the incentive to write at least 500 words a week and that provides its own distinct challenges each week. But to add on top of that the mandatory inclusion of the phrase is something that pushes the very definition of a prompt.

It's not a prompt if you're restricted to including that exact phrase. Especially when you're distorting your characters in order to achieve that one purpose for this one comm and in all likelihood would be removing that phrase when placing the fic in either another comm or editing for submission.

I hope the mods reconsider this ill advised restriction, but I will abide by whatever decision they come to.

[jans-intentions.livejournal.com]

I think it could be an opportunity to be more creative if somehow we have to show the prompt in action, yes. Sometimes alluding to a prompt takes a lot of imagination. Well, I've said my peace and now it's back to work. I will let the three of them work it out and see what I think later.